Dont know about all that, but hey the revolver pictured in the articles heading should be issued to all BATFE agents. Twenty Busch suitcases weigh about 500 lbs. Even when Trump called them… scared of the NRA. Shooting a pistol from a rested position does not magically make it a rifle. I think we’ll find that, rather than being “objective,” each factor is objectively subjective. This is why the agency approved cheek rests such as the Thordsen unit. I think not. Pull that up curbs and steps from dawn till dark all summer in Florida heat. Harris will be most pleased at Cheetos’ precedents. The ATF noted it had received more than 80,000 comments, and “the vast majority of the comments received to date are critical of the framework, and included issues that deserve further study.”. Non LEO citizens are exempt from that requirement. This measurement is not necessarily determinative of the intent of the manufacturer but is used in making an evaluation of the firearm. Basically, the ATF director might be afraid that if he looks soft on guns, Joe Biden will dismiss him or other top ATF staff if he takes office in January. What do these abbreviations mean? All photos above are from ATF’s Instagram feed. I only had sex with my cousin’s step sisters. Pistol. This is tacit admission that arm braces improve the stability and control and, therefore, practicality of “large caliber” handguns. The ATF Agent career is similar to that of a police officer in that ATF agents obtain warrants, serve warrants, conduct raids, collecting evidence, investigating crime scenes, and testifying in trials. You can always use the information of someone you know that is antigun. As I’ve mentioned before, this is a delicate area because of the enormous burden on LE to know and properly enforce all the expanding laws on the books. Then you get to experience what it is like to be a New Zealander. Automatic transmission fluid (ATF) is a kind of transmission fluid used in vehicles with self-shifting or automatic transmissions.It is typically coloured red or green to distinguish it from motor oil and other fluids in the vehicle.. Back when Trump said he wanted to do away with bump fire stocks I said you guys will realize your fatal error when they go after your precious braces. Did the GOP congress and senate stop Trump with his gun control? I just read between the lines, as “must have walnut/be a heavy relic/be a scoped boltie” is what people usually mean when they bring up “real guns.”. When they arrest and imprison me I would appreciate it if you all would write, donate to my defense, and put money in my commissary account. Apparently ATF simply “knows it when they sees it” when it comes to brace-equipped pistols, and we’ll find out upon our arrest whether or not we’ve violated their opinion du jour. I tried to comment on the pistol braces a week ago. In other words, the ATF claims it does not and has not ruled that any make or model of pistol brace exempts all firearms from NFA classification. Attachment Method. In fact, one doesn’t even have to use or ever intend to use one’s firearm(s). Here in Ca, we can’t have an adjustable stock. And in the two years Obama had Congress, gun control just wasn’t a hot topic. You have no foundation in theory as the second amendment is quite simple and quite clear, and all of the discussions regarding the second amendment is available for you and me to read. Playing a big part in T/C’s win was the rule of strict construction mentioned above. Another option would be a demented family member. Obama was stopped by a GOP Congress. The ATF’s law enforcement side sent a cease and desist letter to Q, LLC, with the presidential election closing in next month.The agency targeted … Submitting a comment to the ATF via written letter to a separate destination is a completely different thing, and would possibly trigger a flag for further review. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. But then again, maybe you have a cunt. I don’t have CCW license. While 80 Percents remain a well-defined and legal method for people to complete and build firearms, we were saddened to learn about the ATF's raid of P80. I reckon the BATFE gets about enough comments off TTAG. I have a Wilson 1911 next to my recliner, a 6″ 19 (pinned barrel & and recessed chambers) on my coffee table now. The significance of the ATF in American history is undeniable; albeit controversial at times. This agency has very broad discretion on what kind of firearms Americans can possess legally and also what can be imported inside the country. A pistol is still a pistol if it has a handguard, which I think we understand is thusly yclept due to, you know, the expectation that it’s gripped by one’s hand in order to operate a pistol two-handed. My response to the ATF deals with how that proposal impacts disabled citizens, and will likely be ruled a violation of the ‘Americans with Disabilities Act’, a law with serious teeth in it to force compliance on those that dare to violate it. Yeah, the office is empty because Trump is golfing again. You will get your just reward soon enough…… soon enough. Why are they even taking into consideration how an AR upper is configured? Are the House and Senate unified in opposing this? Thompson/Center, which could be chambered in literally any rifle cartridge ever made. Or, even actually even produced a firearm in any kind of an adversarial confrontation. Those restrictions originated in a time when Congress thought it could effectively ban all small, concealable firearms, including handguns, and minimum size rules for rifles and shotguns would have been necessary to close an obvious loophole. to the ATF for a determination. Length of Pull. In 1791, to offset debts from the American Revolution, Congress imposed a tax on distilled So you trolls enjoy your night in your mom’s damp basement. BATFE is here attempting to define a pistol brace as a stock. If the agency weren’t involved with firearms regulation, at least 90% of the people complaining about it’s activities would hardly notice it’s existence. Your email address will not be published. This is a fishing expedition to see if the people are going to push back. Well done. Nor does it mean the user intended for the brace to function as a stock. I recognize a stock when I see one; and a brace is not a stock. For ATF3 we have found 4 definitions. We’ll get right on top of complying with this impossible-to-follow guideline that is constantly changing and applies only on a case-by-case basis. Gun Owners of America. As for wishing the topic would turn toward actual guns instead of accessories of dubious utility that you don’t own, we’re mostly in the same boat there, but I figure it’s okay if this dominates the airwaves for a while. The ATF has suddenly and unexpectedly backed off on its efforts to force owners of pistol braces to register their firearms equipped with them under the NFA. Heck, a brace “misalignment” may well compensate for a shooter’s disability and provide a straight trajectory for that user. now go screw your sister you dumb redneck…. This new guidelines are completely wrong and absurd our pistol braces are complying with the intent which they are. r/Firearms: Discuss firearms, politics, 2nd amendment news. Required fields are marked *. 11 definitions of ATF. Pathetic. This proposed guidance says that it does not have the effect and force of law . Probably not a Russian (they aren’t as dumb as you appear to be), but you are a filthy POS….. And if you were any kind of real man you wouldn’t be posting threats on a firearms forum…. The BATFE whoever you think you are. The bureau’s agents are dispersed throughout the United States. Great(!) It’s had some custom work done to it, including a Mag-Na-Port muzzle brake. I’m going to bookmark this one and read it a few more times to absorb the excellent arguments. We’ll talk tomorrow. Then I have to yank the hide off this deer. A pistol is still a pistol after the addition of an AFG, or Angled Forward Grip, which ATF determined are not forward grips despite the fact that they are, in fact, very obviously forward grips. None of this matters or makes any sense. I just recognize a 9mm limitations. In the event that they ask you to sign an ATF 3400.1, inform them that the only ATF form you are willing to sign is an ATF 3400.23 – Receipt of Property and Other Items, as the ATF 3400.23 does not contain language, wherein you agree to the forfeiture/destruction of your property. However, circling back to the original purpose of pistol braces — assisting disabled and injured persons in the control of a large format pistol — making assumptions about the physical abilities and, well, “configuration” of such parties is a fool’s errand. ATF stands for ‘Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms’ and is a short name used for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives which is the federal agency that regulates these things. ATF has classified all sorts of components and accessories on their own (as it must), such as trigger cranks, binary triggers, lightning links, bump stocks, muzzle devices, forward grips, the Auto Glove, naughty rubber bands, naughty shoe strings, naughty coat hangers, solvent traps, 80% receiver kits, thread adapters, and so much more. Vagueness doctrine rests on the due process clauses of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments of the U.S. Constitution. ATF, the United States Navy hull classification symbol for a fleet ocean tug; ATF Dingo, a German heavily armored military infantry mobility vehicle; 1 ATF, the 1st Australian Task Force, which commanded Australian and New Zealand's troops in the Vietnam War Remove one of those, and your AR pistol suddenly becomes simply…a pistol. In recent days, the ATF has leveled its sights against Polymer80®s Buy Build Shoot™ kits. As long as the majority of POTG stand aside as their Rights are slowly and inexorability taken away. As well as oil changes, tire repairs, belt and hose changes, etc. Don’t be surprised when the Democrats do the same as the Republicans but make even crazier arguments, such as saying magazines are weapons of mass destruction (a Bush era term). [T]he NFA’s minimum size rules (and the ATF’s interpretations thereof) are an absurd anachronism. Anyone believing that “public comments” on unilaterally made unconstitutional rules cooked up by the commies at BATFEces actually has any impact on their agenda and plans is a SPECIAL kind of stupid. The admin wants to confirm that you are not a spammer. Even a heavy decision wiping all this away would be ignored. theyre not even listed as an available item to purchase. T/C won that case in front of the Supreme Court, by the way. After high school it was basic training, airborne school and a nice long vacation in the 75th Infantry Regiment. . To be clear I’d fight something like that tooth-and-nail, but that’s what an objective rule would look like). Peripheral Accessories. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yE6s7P6wThI. During war, soldiers are issued the same style rifle, regardless of their size. CA has three criteria to classify a gun as an AW, all three of which must be met: 1) Centerfire Also, why is this in a document about defining stabilizing braces? Them Florida deer ain’t much bigger then a dog Gadsden Flag, you aught to come out to the midwest, doe’s usually field dress out around 5, 6 hundred pounds. I’ve killed deer in Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, South Carolina, New York and Missouri. Jeremy, Lifetime 50-state carry is a ‘privilege’ retired LE enjoy…. I said mostly the same thing in my comment and more. One step above muzzle loading. Never saw them fire them any other way than off the shoulder. Likewise, the rule of strict construction holds that U.S. courts must hold in the favor of the defendant and against the government in any case involving unclear or ambiguous law. Just kidding on both of these. I can fire a pistol one-handed with the optic whatever distance from my eye as I desire, with or without a brace. ATF will consider the comments it receives before finalizing this guidance. We are law abiding citizensThe ones you really should be going after the criminals. More info on how to do all of that is HERE. Piss people off. Because of changes in design or configuration of a weapon or attachment, as well as future changes in technology, this list is not exhaustive and other factors may become relevant to a weapon’s classification. And I assure you it’s very different from what I determine is practical for my eight-year-old daughter to fire, which is different from what was practical when she was six. This is impossible and it makes no sense. left a public comment as well as contacted the White House and our representatives, “Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with Stabilizing Braces” document, https://www.historycentral.com/Revolt/stories/Hang.html. To provide a warning and a suggestion. Next, and attorneys differ on their opinions about this, the upper was assembled to the lower with the inclusion of the KaliKey so as to make it a single-shot action. Let’s keep pushing. Ditto I say about each purchase you make. You also do not have to even be a gun owner to comment. Or the pistol brace. yet. The FD-258 fingerprint cards are used in many services other than the ATF NFA application process. If I want to shoot a pistol with a one-meter-long barrel (and I have) I’m fully within my legal rights to do so, and for no reason whatsoever does it depart from the definition of “pistol.”. Prior to this proffered “Objective Factors” document, ATF has been using an actual objective factor of a 13.5-inch length of pull maximum. Type and Caliber. 1) A constitutional rule that requires criminal laws to state explicitly and definitely what conduct is punishable. The name of the agency is Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco Firearms and Explosives abbreviated BATFE. The definition above is from the 1934 National Firearms Act. Use of these items indicates that the weapon is designed and intended to be fired from the shoulder because they extend a stabilizing brace beyond a point that is useful for something other than shoulder support. They took all the arguments made by those that didn’t want them banned and retorted to every point in a manner to prevent legal challenge. I have asked several non gun owning but gun rights supporting friends to comment. Posts must … The conspiracy has somehow recruited Lou Dobbs, they must have some incriminating information on him, maybe pictures of him having sex with animals, who knows? I never disputed the characterization. There have been some minor re-writings since (1968 Gun Control Act), but I quoted the NFA to point out that we have now defined pistols as guns designed to be fired when held in one hand for 86 years. Stainless Winchester Model 70 action, HS Precision stock, Shilen match grade barrel (1:10″) 21″, recessed crown, bolt faced trued, trigger job, etc., etc., etc. Secondary Grip. what? At least, submitting a comment can truly matter. Likely causing the Republicans to lose midterms and keeping Joe for a second term, which he will die in office giving Kamala the title of first woman president. No push back=ban. The last time Trump’s ATF did this they used the public comments to build a legal case to ban bump fire stocks. His ATF director was busy trying to change the culture against guns. That fudd is an idiot. All of this over a brace? This site is about all things gun related. Incidentally, if you’re looking for a good time I highly recommend reading the comments on practically any photo whatsoever in the agency’s feed, but particularly any photo containing a dog or a fire. Using the term “length of pull” is prejudicial from the outset. I’d really like a hassle-free way to put a stock on a Polymer80 build currently in progress… . Geoff, you are right. We’re right back to rules that apply differently to different people. Not since the Revolutionary War has it been more true: ” We Must Hang Together Or Surely We Shall Hang Separately” Benjamin Franklin Why with that there power steering you could mow down pedestrians on one side of the street and turn around fast and mow the other side of the street down. All it takes is for a majority of POTG to bend to the fear for it to be effective. That’s always fun. https://www.historycentral.com/Revolt/stories/Hang.html, I’m at an age where the threat of a long jail sentence or even death is no longer a deterrent to, Yep, got the T-SHIRT (2 actually) wear it proudly, makes the point with a USMC hat and the Molon Labe pin… Not to mention the ever so slight print of a G29 10mm inside the waistband EDC…. No one shoots a pistol this way and no one has to. LOL, By the way did I happen to mention the 700lb Flathead I caught this spring, probably not, I dont like to brag or stretch stories. 4 years ago I told Trump tards we would get more gun control. This includes, but is not limited to, the installation of bipods/monopods that improve the accuracy of heavy weapons designed and intended to be fired from the shoulder; or the inclusion of a magazine or drum that accepts so many cartridges that it increases the overall weight of the firearm to a degree that it is impractical to fire the weapon with one hand even with the assistance of a stabilizing brace. The 3%ers put themselves in the crosshairs back in the 18th century. Making even more felons than when they said bump fire stocks are machine guns. Is this a large caliber firearm that is impractical? As before, this also presents an impossible scenario for firearm and accessory manufacturers, retailers, and gun owners. In fact, ATF attempted to prosecute based on this arbitrarily invented, never-before-publicized metric and lost, in part due to the fact that the defendant had no reasonable way of knowing about this “restriction.”. You know, they’re gonna come for your “sniper rifle” (your deer gun) next. Keep Your Powder Dry. Paid for my wife’s education. Again here we go with the one-handed, arms extended garbage. I went to a Led Zepplin concert once. We all need to submit a comment on ATF’s latest proposal. Furthermore, how is this practical or in any way tenable? Furthermore, I see no legal argument against installing a pistol stabilizing brace solely to balance out the aesthetics of a large format pistol. Collecting for the sake of collecting or hanging on one’s wall is entirely legal. The ATF has already decided their course. Nor is there an objective standard for “large” caliber. This is a complete infringement of our constitutional right. Aspect two: This is just stupid. They watchie every way they can. Period! We know 4 definitions for ATF3 abbreviation or acronym in 2 categories. That right there is what the democrats are going for. I said, “No thanks. Send in your letter. What Is Antifa: 5 Things To Know About The Movement - Across America, US - President Trump tweeted Sunday that he's designating antifa as a "terrorist organization," but can he legally do that? Convention of states can get rid of this left wing subversive agency! This “guidance”, therefore, would make illegal for a person of small stature what is perfectly allowable for an NFL lineman. For those who like to point to other countries as enlightened examples of what the U.S. should do or consider, allow me to note that we are the only country in the world — despite the vast majority of other “Western” countries having stricter gun control laws — to regulate rifles based on barrel length. It’s clear that none of you blabbermouths ever pose a real threat. This is almost always an example of “an upward trajectory” and it absolutely does not mean that one “could not accurately hit a target.”. Every day you wake up you’re a day closer to death. Those high capacity magazines? Answers to some common questions related to the manufacturing of firearms and ammunition. There is no mandate to read any particular article. Is the same thing happening with this proposal? the one thing worse than a whining ex leo is a inbred redneck whining ex leo PIG. So much objectiving is happening here I can scarcely handle it. As an an aside, I would have to conduct a census, but I’m guessing at least half of my firearms don’t have as much as a splinter of wood in their construction. It’s rude and not conducive to reasonable conversation. Perhaps worse, or at least most insulting, much of the alleged guidance found in the document contradicts ATF’s own rulings and practices, past and current. Then they hired a temporary director to carry out Trump’s orders. It is the principal job of an America First activist to make the GOP as inhospitable an atmosphere as possible for these amoral, profit-obsessed vultures. …the purpose of the NFA is “to regulate certain weapons likely to be used for criminal purposes,” United States v. Thompson/Center Arms Co., 504 U.S. 505, 517 (1992)…. On the plus side it stacks Swift Socorro 150 grains on top of each other. This is being retroactively enforced. To beat a dead horse a bit further, I have accurately shot various types of pistols without sights by aligning a point at the top rear of the gun with the tip of the barrel and determining where this places rounds downrange. They just want to get back to business with some get togethers without covid restrictions so they can raise money for themselves again. It does nothing other than create uncertainty and confirm that ATF does not want to be held accountable. Either we stand together against this and every single attack on our rights, or we will all meet at the prison yard for cocktails. The brace thing is in response to them losing the battle about SS109, they made braces legal so people would make 556 pistols, so they could ban ammo like they did for AK’s. When occasional TTAG author Conner W. texted me the above screenshot, I was on the phone with the ATF. It’s all going to end up with a ban on any gun that shoots more than one round per trigger pull without reloading or working an action. Vague and ambiguous.”. Done. Installation of peripheral accessories commonly found on rifles or shotguns that may indicate that the firearm is not designed and intended to be held and fired with one hand. Unfortunately this was an entirely unpublished and secret metric which ATF planned on enforcing as it saw it. The GOV closed it it down a week early tried again today still closed. In a 16 page draft copy of proposed rulemaking/guidance specifying "Objective Factors for Classifying Stablizing Braces", the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has proposed entering into rulemaking to delineate the objective factors considered when "evaluating firearms with an attached stabilizing brace to determine whether they are considered firearms under … How does this NOT negate the ongoing 80% w/parts kit “seizures”? under the republicans ,possible. We can expect little logic in their approach to do so. Uh look here you f k n snot nosed punk.. … just because you dont have the wrist strength to properly hold a 1911 is not the guns problem…… it’s your problem for being a limp wristed H O M O. While this article will not examine the controversies surrounding that incident, it does offer insight into the tasks performed by the ATF. Oh, just so you know. Is ATF in violation of remanufacturing these pistols into SBRs because they were purchased with the clear intent of firing them with two hands? The 1934 NFA law that created these restrictions is antiquated, irrelevant, and proven to be unnecessary. Here’s a clue for you idiots. Nor does it have to be shouldered to do so. I would just like to talk about something else. Wtf??? Then it was a few years with the local Anhauser Bush distributorship. The Republican Party has embraced the GOP acronym after doing battle with the Democrats for decades over its use. Except Mom’s pecan pie at Thanksgiving and Christmas. First, what is a “pistol,” anyway? Read More . Leave a comment: …ATF has decided to publish the proposed objective factors in the Federal Register for a brief comment period, given the public interest surrounding these issues. They don’t even have a spine. I just want to thank you for the thorough fact checking. 2896 (2010). They even destroyed a large amount of stocks, from a single company, using a chipper as they filmed it for the public to watch. This is like the dress codes in jr. and sr. high school, a teacher might send Nancy to the office because of attire, but Sally(who was a quiet church mouse in class), was wearing tighter and shorter clothes. Mark Twain said. Convention of States is a Constitution Referendum… The BATFE is a Congressional “brainchild” bureaucracy NOT created by the Constitution… And what they do is called regulation, anything they want to give the weight of law to must be approved by heir masters (Congress) who is the REAL villain in this picture…. This has never been implied by ATF previously, nor has it taken anything of the sort into any of its past stabilizing brace determinations. And I have SBRs with paperwork. The AML/ATF and Sanctions programs are delivered by employees in the Enterprise Anti-Money Laundering (EAML) group, made up of teams of specialists who use analytics, innovative technology and professional expertise to detect and deter ML/TF and manage sanctions compliance. A tobacco field in N FL in August qualifies as hard work. Your email address will not be published. Just as one-handed shooting of a pistol is not a requirement under the law nor a common practice in this century, there is no law against other shooting styles or methods, or any requirement that sights or even sighting (aiming) is required. Consumer fireworks can be used with a variety of tools. With that done, let’s take a deep dive into each “objective factor” listed in ATF’s draft guidance document to see how they hold up under scrutiny. This is a perfect example of a vague and entirely undefined rule. The ATF has announced new guidance on how it will determine the overall length of AR pistols and what does or does not enter into NFA territory when is comes to pistols utilizing a stabilizing brace along with other accessories. If you’re thinking about LE screening this site, then I clearly just explained above how my pistol is CA compliant for anyone reading it. ATF does not classify unregulated components or accessories alone. Addressed above beginning at where the NFA definition of “pistol” is quoted. What if a gun shop sells a firearm with a brace that’s “too long” for one customer but okay for another customer? In “Court” is the purpose of the Long game attack on Rights. We can’t give up because “they” don’t give up. You’re correct, however, that any sales of full-function AR pistols within CA are illegal. Gadsen, since people consider us Florida POTG to be inbred sister-fvcking hicks, here’s ‘Leroy the Redneck Reindeer’ : Geoff, I resent that remake. This is the permanent solution to ATF’s continued rogue actions to undermine the firearm industry, gun ownership, and the Second Amendment writ large. You might even get a woman president and a woman vice president. Anyone who can’t handle recoil should stick to air rifles. The ORI number is a nine-character identifier assigned to an agency. I do have to qualify annually with both pistol and revolver since I carry both. There is the option to comment anonymously. Ing, I own at least as many 9mm as I do .45 ACP handguns. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. A large caliber firearm that is impractical to fire with one hand because of recoil or other factors, even with an arm brace, is likely to be considered a rifle or shotgun. The batfags don’t give two shits what you or I have to say about arm braces. The Savage 502 pistol features a forearm stock that can be held. No, no I didn’t think so. 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Brake was on the list america… it does not want to get back to rules that apply differently different. Is objectively subjective such as the rest an optic to take advantage of that is constantly changing applies., congratulations you already outed yourself as mr. t would say SHUT up FOOL! of! A correction on the market with extremely short lengths of pull ” refers to the distance from my as. Above beginning at where the NFA, we ’ ll find that, but ATF does not magically make a. Hence why Antifa was created improving NFA than off the shoulder FOOL! remanufacturing these pistols into because. For obvious reason idea who or where he is. Leftist playbook against them… need to beat them Court... Agencies and efforts in the two years Obama had congress, gun control agency approved cheek such... The 4473, paid for my background check and would have done just that, but hey the revolver in! That failed, it takes is for a majority of POTG stand aside as their rights are you about... 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